The Minister of Defense has repeatedly said that DOT is more successful than DPA. What exactly was he talking about?
It was about the speed of concluding contracts and fulfilling obligations. It is important that we had an advantage, because we created DOT from scratch, and I actually selected the entire team. That is, we did not have any risks associated with personnel policy. That is why it was decided to unite the agencies on the basis of DOT. But our international partners expressed concerns, and the Ministry listened.
Whatʼs next? Will you be considered for the position of Director of the Agency?
This is a question for the Ministry, I don’t know about it. They only told me that while the Ministry is making some decisions, it is necessary to pick up the work so that the processes are not interrupted and there are weapons deliveries. It would be scary and difficult for an outsider without proper training to enter the subject, so they asked me. I got involved, I am already signing contracts and necessary documents
Defense procurement is significantly different from logistics — there are many political issues, shadowy players, everything is classified. How knowledgeable are you in the subject to deal specifically with weapons?
When we launched medical procurement in Ukraine, there were also questions about whether I was a pharmacist and whether I had the appropriate industry expertise to purchase medicines or medical equipment. When we built a bunker, there were questions about whether I knew about different types of fuels, lubricants, and oils.
In fact, I focus on building the right systems and processes. So that people with the necessary expertise can quickly conclude a contract with a reliable supplier at an adequate price. And so that the delivery is on time. I understand very well what tools — technical and analytical — are needed to build such a process.
There are problems with Ukrainian manufacturers in DPA. On the one hand, there is the decision of the State Council that it is necessary to contract with them. On the other hand, there is an example of one large plant that was unable to fulfill one contract and made a large shortage after another. At the same time, the head of the Ministry of Strategic Industry Herman Smetanin says that we need to continue working with this plant. What to do about this, do you have a solution?
On the one hand, we need to encourage our market to develop. On the other hand, we need to manage risks. This means that we need to go into the process, contract such a manufacturer and set beacons at every stage of contract execution, and not when defective products are already at the front. For example, letʼs check what raw materials they plan to use: whether they are of high quality, whether they were delivered on time. When we do this, we will be able to control each batch, see if the shells explode. We need to go deeper into contract management.
Should the Agency do this? Because the Ministry of Defense has its own military offices that are responsible for the quality...
The fact that the Ministry has its military representatives is very good. The fact that military representatives are still within the perimeter of the Ministry is a practice that needs to be reviewed. This function needs to be professionalised and it needs to be clearly established how they should work. Because when they work as a structural unit of the Ministry of Defense, there is an opportunity to shift responsibility to others within the Ministry.
Should the control function be added to the Defense Procurement Agency? This is a discussion, there are pros and cons, but it should be removed from the Ministry. For now, nothing prevents us from setting such beacons in contracts so that military representatives visit each of them, give their conclusions, and only then do we move on.
You can also divide the advance payment for high-risk contracts. For example, first pay a small percentage, which is enough to buy raw materials. When there are raw materials, we pay, for example, human labour. And so on. In DOT, under the relevant contracts, we have implemented this since the second half of last year — we have good results.
Our contracts are also criticized, but these are rare cases. Last year, we fulfilled our program by 99.7% in terms of money, and by over 90% in terms of goods. In January, we are still running out of goods that were contracted for, so we reach 100%.
Zhumadilov presents a report on the work of DOT in 2024, December 9, 2024.
You have already started answering my next question. Last year you had problematic contracts with Ukrspetstekstyl for the supply of ponchos
We had the right to terminate those contracts only after waiting for the final delivery date plus 30 days. We have revised that practice and starting in the second half of 2024, we are concluding completely different contracts — we do not wait for the final date and terminate them immediately.
You temporarily headed the Agency amid a major scandal. How does this affect you and do you communicate with Maryna Bezrukova?
I talked to her on the first day I came to DPA. I said, if you have any questions, let me know. Does this situation scare me? Is it pleasant? No, itʼs unpleasant. But under such conditions, I didnʼt have the option to say "no". On my part, it would be irresponsible to simply watch from the sidelines as a very important function for the state collapses.
One of the reasons for this unpleasant situation for everyone is a personal conflict. Maryna Bezrukova refused to do what former Deputy Minister of Defense Dmytro Klimenkov asked her to do, and their relationship deteriorated. Then the situation reached a dead end. We do not yet know who will take Klimenkovʼs place, but could this situation happen to you again?
Is there such a risk in general? Yes. Is it possible to manage this risk? Absolutely.
How to manage exactly?
Look at what worries your counterpart. If itʼs not about red lines, communication and finding compromises are possible. And red lines are either working in the interests of the enemy or corruption. Do you think I have friendly communication with everyone in the Ministry of Defense? And there were also difficult moments with Klimenkov. But at some point I understood his management style, and then we worked normally.
When you and Umerov talked about your appointment as the acting head of DPA, did you discuss any KPIs
The first and most important thing is to conclude contracts and make commitments as soon as possible. DOT entered this year with the fact that we concluded contracts for 51% of the proven need for 2025. This is an unprecedented result. The situation is completely different in DPA. For 2025, commitments were made for less than 10% of the needs.
If someone says that they were told their needs were late
When I talked about the DPA situation with representatives of the Ministry of Defense, they often mentioned your DOT-chain
Such a system can work in defense procurement, but not with the entire nomenclature, but in some categories. We will contact the Ministry to implement a tool similar to ours in the Defense Procurement Agency.